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sageform
20 Dec 17 13:06
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Date Joined: 15 Jun 01
| Topic/replies: 11,851 | Blogger: sageform's blog
I have looked at all of the Frankel progeny in the RP database that have so far run (in any country) from his 2 crops.
Total to have run: 111.
Of which:
32 won first time out.
17 were second
12 were third
7 were fourth
43 were unplaced.

Many of the ones that didn't win fto have won in subsequent runs of course but they do seem to be good first time. Also worth mentioning that none of those trained by Aiden O' B won and few were placed first time.
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Report Big Black Cat December 20, 2017 1:47 PM GMT
FTO winner over hurdles too sageform (or was that included?)
Report sageform December 21, 2017 8:37 AM GMT
No it wasn't because it ran on the flat a few times and didn't win any of them! I did watch and back the first hurdle runner who looked a real stayer. I didn't differentiate between first and second crop but I get the feeling that the second have been given a bit more time as the pressure on trainers to win with them recedes.
Report kincsem December 21, 2017 9:18 PM GMT
More interesting is the crop sizes.
Report A_T December 23, 2017 10:44 AM GMT
the champion 3yo colt from his first crop. his owners will be delighted.
Report Big Black Cat December 23, 2017 11:42 AM GMT
Pretty good start for Frankel. Two individual G1 winners from his first two crops and lots of well above average but not quite top class animals-including plenty (16) of group winners.

I did see that blurb from Juddmonte about him having more Group winners than Galileo at the same stage-maybe true but his dad had 8 individual G1 winners in his first two crops (according to my research anyway).

Cracksman is a very fine animal, but was his only European G1 winner to date of course, from his first two crops.
Report sageform December 23, 2017 6:29 PM GMT
Eminent could still win a G1 as I see him as a 4yo improver but little else around on current evidence. Nothing really exciting from the 2yo crop. I do think that there a few potential late developers though. Herculean and Wadilsafa were first and second in the same maiden but it is hard to gauge the form while Elwazir and Erdogan are 2 very well bred maidens to watch for once the turf season returns. Cracksman had done little as a 2yo.
Report Big Black Cat December 23, 2017 10:31 PM GMT
Cracksman and Eminent could certainly still improve further-absolutely.  There may be late maturing 3 yo's that we've not seen yet as well.

Cracksman certainly improved throughout the season of course-if he'd been at the same level as he was in the Champion then he'd have probably been a dual Derby winner too.
Report truehoncho December 24, 2017 6:44 PM GMT
Not sure why anyone would think that Cracksman or Eminent are certain to improve. Cracksman has temperament issues and Eminent is not a good looking horse in my book.
Report Big Black Cat December 24, 2017 7:07 PM GMT
Just looking at his current sales returns, then if you've got the dosh, and the mare then he seems a very good option!  His median for both colts and fillies is way above his fee and I'm sure that anyone who has a foal or yearling will hope that will continue.

Obviously Elite are sending MARLINKA (dam of MARSHA) to him in 2018 so you will hopefully have a FRANKEL half brother/sister to her on the ground in 2019. 

Of course, as mentioned earlier, there's nothing of his looking likely to be a superstar in this years 2yo's (at the minute).  He's has Cracksman and Eminent of course, but if he fails to have more G1 winners in the next couple of years, its going to be getting harder and harder to justify the price tags and dare I say it, the fee?
Report duncan idaho January 10, 2018 1:49 PM GMT
truehoncho  24 Dec 17 18:44

Not sure why anyone would think that Cracksman or Eminent are certain to improve. Cracksman has temperament issues and Eminent is not a good looking horse in my book.



What are Cracksman's temperament issues? I havent picked up on them. As far as i'm concerned, he'll be a monster at 4 (in a good way)
Report sageform January 24, 2018 10:01 AM GMT
First hurdle winner now unbeaten in 2 runs. Solo Saxophone showed great resolution in terrible ground.
Report Big Black Cat February 2, 2018 8:32 PM GMT
Will anyone at Juddmonte be getting slightly anxious over Solo Symphony?

Whilst there are other more fancied beasts in the Triumph, would it be a teeny weeny bit embarrassing for all there if Frankel's second grade 1 winner in Europe was a hurdler?

The cynic in me is not surprised at the increase in his fee this year-his sales record is pretty spectacular to be fair, but it doesn't really match his achievements on the racecourse.

If he has another quiet year this year in terms of group winners, and Cracksman either doesn't train on or gets stuffed by Enable, will the bubble start to deflate a bit?

Are the Banstead Manor team raking in the cash now just in case he turns out to be a bit of a dud at stud?
Report A_T February 7, 2018 9:37 PM GMT
there must be some very stupid breeders out there if they're paying an increased fee for an underperforming stallion
Report potentialmillionaire February 8, 2018 1:48 PM GMT
Good grief A_T I can't remember a sire that has made a better start any time recently. If you think that is underperforming then what on earth does successful look like?
You might have ideas in your mind's eye but the failure rates for all new sires- regardless of your expectations- is pretty massive.
Report Big Black Cat February 8, 2018 7:13 PM GMT
I see another winner over hurdles for Frankel today.

The RP seem to be spinning this as something positive however.  Call me a bluff old traditionalist here but isn't this a bit of a PR disaster for the team at Juddmonte?  A stallion who's fee has just gone up to £175K has now bred the same number of G1 flat winners as he has juvenile hurdle winners?

Now of course, both his granddad and dad have produced top class winners over jumps-nothing wrong with that.

But they had a zillion G1 winners to their credit at the time. No 1 son/grandson doesn't.
Report potentialmillionaire February 8, 2018 8:52 PM GMT
BBC exactly what was Galileo's ratio of good flat horses to hurdles? I note that his best hurdler the Grade 1 winner Celestial Halo came from his second crop but if anyone expects any stallion to get near to Galileo's record, I think a little lesson in managing expectations is called for!
Report Big Black Cat February 8, 2018 10:03 PM GMT
PM previous research shows that Galileo had 8 individual G1 winners in his first two crops.  I didn't know about Celestial halo so that makes it 9 Grade one winners!

Galileo has had around 70 group one winners and his catching his dad up.  He has a number of top class hurdlers (SupaSundae the latest of course) but his top class flat horses comfortably outweigh his top class hurdlers. As did his dads.

Im a little incredulous at the spin being put on this to be honest.  if I was charging £175k a pop I wouldn't want to be talking about winners of maiden hurdles.  I'd be wanting to concentrate on Cracksman...

No ones paying £125k to breed a maiden hurdle winner are they? I'd be crying my eyes out to be honest.
Report Koo.... February 9, 2018 12:05 AM GMT
If he sired a 3 day event winner they'd dress it up as a story without it having to be positive or negative.
Report Eont February 9, 2018 10:05 AM GMT
http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/tdn-sire-stats/?txbYear=2018&crops=3&sbYear=2017&srt=900&nao=3&txbFR=NHB&fr=NHB&ob=1&cy=0&naocy=3&frcy=NHB&obcy=1

If you look at those statistics you can see how far he is ahead of the competition. Those sort of percentages are amazing and does not take much a little bit of luck really to convert the grade 1 winners to a much higher level. Imagine if a certain trainer in Ireland had a virus this year like they did in France in 2016 Frankel will have a season beyond belief with hardly any Galileo's around.

As for the jumps it is another cheap shot at second rate journalism. Though is relevant because it makes a Frankel rated 83 at the horses in training sales much more desirable than say a Kodiac rated 83. That Frankel could just be a Cheltenham horse and we all know how much national hunt horses sell for at the top end of the market. This makes Frankel a better investment as your potential loss on initial outlay is likely to be less on average.
Report Big Black Cat February 9, 2018 7:44 PM GMT
Eont-lets put this into perspective-Frankel has had lots of group winners(12)and 44 black type horses so far in addition to his 2 G1 winners.

But he should be successful based on the mares he covered! In his first croup, he covered 36 G 1 winners, 14 G1 placed horses, 17 sisters/siblings to G1 winners and 27 dams of G1 winners.  so that's 94/133 mares he covered had some G1 connection in their pedigrees.

So outside of his dad, who spends most of his time covering Coolmores broodmares, he's has had by far the best chance of any other stallion around to produce black type horses.  Without look at anyone elses book, I'd find it hard to believe that any other stallion has had such a stellar book of mares to cover?

So 2 G1 winners out of 94 mares who have a G1 connection in their pedigree.....in his first crop.

Frankel was a great racehorse.  No argument at all. There's no point talking about 'luck' or hoping APOB gets a virus, because the truly great stallions are judged by their number of Group 1 winners, like his dad and granddad.

Frankel could still reach something approaching those giddy heights.  We shall see.

BTW you're right, his hurdlers could be top class over timber, but I cant see that his connections would be overjoyed at the prospect given they are selling their colt as a potential classic winning sire?
Report sageform February 9, 2018 8:08 PM GMT
My perception so far is that the first crop were rather forced into action by some trainers who were impatient to show what they could do but the best ones like Cracksman and Eminent were more backward and given time. This year the 2yo's were less prominent but there could be plenty of sleepers ready to show their hand as 3yo's. I would not be surprised if Frankel's progeny turn out more like Sadlers Wells than Galileo.
Report A_T February 10, 2018 1:34 PM GMT
@ potentialmilloinaire I was being sarcastic there seem to be people who are determined to paint Frankel as a failure as a stallion. With the champion 3yo colt in his first crop his owners muse be delighted and the idea that a good horse over hurdles somehow diminishes him is wishful thinking.
Report Big Black Cat February 10, 2018 1:45 PM GMT
I suspect the breeders are paying the money because at the minute he's pretty much a cast iron certainty to make you money at the sales.  The numbers stack up.

He will continue to be well supported by Juddmonte as well and will continue to cover lots of very high class mares.  He is very much the Golden Goose at the minute.

But at the end of the day, he's going to be judged by G1 winners, and he's not got very many yet!  Despite some incredible opportunities.

There comes a point where the rumbling will begin if the Group 1's don't come.  Lots of absolutely stellar racehorses have gone to stud and achieved very little.  Dancing Brave? Ironic isn't it?

His horses over hurdles have won a couple of maiden hurdles-that doesn't make them good horses yet! And as I keep saying, you're not sending a top mare to him to breed a hurdles winner!  I'd still be crying my eyes out.
Report A_T February 10, 2018 2:11 PM GMT
Dancing Brace didn't sire the champion 3yo colt from his first crop.
Report proxygene February 10, 2018 2:32 PM GMT
13076    160    Dubawi
10731    68    Frankel
10329    133    Galileo
9511    39    War Front
8940    19    Scat Daddy
Report Big Black Cat February 10, 2018 2:50 PM GMT
Dancing Brave didn't sire much of note at all, did he?
Report sageform February 11, 2018 1:02 PM GMT
The hurdler (Solo Sax.) runs again today at Exeter 2.30 in a better race so we will see how good he is.
Report Big Black Cat February 11, 2018 1:25 PM GMT
sageform-Solo Saxaphone could be a really good horse, as could the other one.  I've no doubt that over time Frankel will sire grade one winners over jumps.

But I would think its unlikely to be prominent on his adverts at Banstead Manor.

They want Cracksman's and Eminent's, not Solo Saxaphones eh?

Good luck to his connections today.
Report Eont February 12, 2018 12:07 PM GMT
BBC he only needs one more grade 1 winner from his first crop to out preform statistics. Grade 1 dams only produce grade 1 winners at 2.44%. The list you give with grade 1 connections throws at a lower % though is conversion rate is 2.12% at present from those 94.

https://ownerbreeder.co.uk/columns/broodmares-buying-guide/
Report Big Black Cat February 12, 2018 2:38 PM GMT
Interesting numbers EONT

Presuming the conversion rate is similar for non G1 dams/connections?

His best chance would seem to be Elarqarm this year of getting that second winner.  Of course there are sure to be a lot of unraced promising types lurking around.
Report Big Black Cat February 18, 2018 1:02 PM GMT
First winner for Frankel in the UAE yesterday-Immortalised in a 10f dirt maiden.

The horse was previously a maiden with Karl Burke (5 runs, 1 placed) and had run 5 times in the UAE prior to his victory yesterday.

The horse was sold for G37K at the July sale last year. He is a half brother to Temps Au Temps who was 4th in the French Guineas.
Report Big Black Cat February 21, 2018 12:27 AM GMT
RP now reporting that Frankel has two sons at stud-in Cyprus and Pakistan.

Straight Shooter won a maiden for A. Fabre by 7L, but was injured and had to retire.  He has a nice new job in Cyprus. He is a Half brother to Grand Criterium winner Naaqoos

Tango Fire was a thrice raced maiden, sold for G4K and is now in Pakistan.  His dam was G2 placed and is from the family of L'Ancresse and Moonstone.
Report sageform March 18, 2018 11:47 AM GMT
Solo Saxophone ran on well to be sixth at Cheltenham.
Report sageform March 24, 2018 12:50 PM GMT
1/4 shot beaten at Dundalk last night. They don't like the AW any more than Galileo's do.
Report sageform April 14, 2018 3:55 PM BST
Nelson a Group 3 winner for Frankel at Naas.
Report Big Black Cat April 14, 2018 10:36 PM BST
Certainly bred for the job.  3 parts brother to US Army Ranger.
Report sageform April 19, 2018 1:33 PM BST
Two more promising daughters of Frankel appeared recently. Zarkamiya out of Zarkava could be very good but had to work to win at Longchamp today. Qazyna had experience and won easily at Newmarket yesterday.
Report sageform April 19, 2018 2:34 PM BST
Surya out of Sariska not nearly as promising in the Wood Ditton as the 2 fillies above.
Report sageform April 27, 2018 1:00 PM BST
Sing a Rainbow (San 4.35) the latest to make a debut.
Report A_T April 29, 2018 3:59 PM BST
Cracksman easy winner at Longchamp
Report sageform April 30, 2018 8:00 AM BST
A Group 1 winner to start the year. Now for Guineas with Elarqam.
Report Big Black Cat April 30, 2018 11:59 AM BST
Good performance from Cracksman yesterday, and I'd expect him to improve.  We'll see what he's really made of at the Curragh though.

Elaqarm has a big chance in the guineas, I agree.  That Godolphin beast who bolted up in the Craven looks pretty decent though.
Report sageform May 4, 2018 8:07 PM BST
Mori also favourite tomorrow.
Report Big Black Cat May 11, 2018 10:03 PM BST
Elaquarm ran well in the Guineas.  Seems to need further. Strange that he's going to the Irish guineas then.

Frankuus and Eminent rather fluffed their lines today though.
Report neill d May 12, 2018 1:27 AM BST
Trainer of Elaquarm is a huge limiting factor, can't win Classics painting by numbers; and I know he trained the dam before anyone says anything.

Wouldn't know what to make of Meade, Eminent seems to have a measure of talent but all the sire's worst traits too. They should maybe geld him and go pot hunting later in the year. I could see him murdering horses from the front on the tight tracks down under.
Report sageform May 12, 2018 11:11 AM BST
What looked like a very disappointing day for Frankel yesterday was saved by Ganayem who beat what looked a decent field of maidens at Nottingham. Eminent clearly had a problem, Frankuus has had an awful lot of racing while Hamful was a huge price in the market for his debut and ran like a long term project. Mirage Dancer failed to impress last year so has to improve to win the 2.50 at Ascot while Ejtyah is stepped up in class in the  Lingfield Oaks trial and La Figlia is visored for her handicap debut in Ling. 3.40.
Report sageform May 18, 2018 4:58 PM BST
More mixed results for Frankel recently. Thursday: Zabriskie was a very respectable third in the Dante, Sun Maiden won very easily from a modest field at Salisbury while Guild and Crystal King both looked very slow at Newmarket. Friday. Count Octave does not seem to be progressing. Wadisalfa won nicely but Herculean, although second, seemed unsuited by Newmarket. Surya a well beaten fifth but First Eleven at Newbury won so three winners for Frankel, all with nice 3yo's in 2 days.
Report sageform May 18, 2018 5:48 PM BST
And Baghdad (5.40 York) finished off the day in style with the fourth win by a Frankel 3yo in 2 days.
Report sageform May 24, 2018 12:12 PM BST
Two Frankel runners in Group races this evening. Without Parole in the Heron Stakes over a mile and Weekender (4yo) in the Henry ll over 2 miles. His progeny seem to take after Galileo rather than Kind, although being by Danehill, she could be expected to produce runners at a range of distances.
Report sageform May 24, 2018 12:16 PM BST
Sorry, I overlooked Silver Quartz in the Heron Stakes. He is not without a chance.
Report Big Black Cat May 24, 2018 2:46 PM BST
I saw an analysis of Without Parole and his maiden win a couple of weeks ago on ATR.  Apparently he registered an incredible speed figure on debut in his maiden.  They put a list of horses who achieved similar or better speed figures on debut and the were all pretty much G1 winners of some repute!

I'd expect him to win this race easily and be a very serious contender for the St James palace at RA.

I cant for the life of me understand why Elaquarm is going for the IR 2000G after what his trainer said after his run at Newmarket.  They will be taking on another batch of the O'Brien battalions, and although Saxon Warrior has Epson on his agenda, this lot won't be too shabby.  And will be specialist milers too.
Report Big Black Cat May 24, 2018 6:59 PM BST
That should have been his second start of course....
Report sageform May 25, 2018 11:38 AM BST
Plenty of excuses from connections for his unconvincing win yesterday but he did win a listed contest from 2 horses with similar RPR ratings. The time at Yarmouth might be suspect so talk of him being a Guineas winner were probably over the top but he could still be a Group 1 performer as could Gabr.
Report Big Black Cat May 26, 2018 7:11 PM BST
Elaquarm ran 'too bad to be true' according to his trainer today.  Or maybe he's not a miler and got outpaced.  Or maybe he's not as good as they think?
Report sageform May 26, 2018 7:25 PM BST
all of the above I think. At least Frankel did get 2 GB wins today. The Grand Vizir over 2 miles and Mirage Dancer over 12 furlongs looked thorough stayers.
Report Big Black Cat May 26, 2018 8:21 PM BST
They all appear to stay well don't they.  He is more like his dad than his mum it would seem. Elaqarm may improve over 10f or more.
Report sageform May 26, 2018 8:38 PM BST
BBC, you seem to finding it as hard to spell Elarqam as most of us do Happy His reputation came from the pedigree, the sale ring and the yard and not really from form. He won a Group 3 at 2yo and was a respectable fourth in the Guineas but that is probably as good as he is unless as you say he improves over longer distances. I backed him for both Guineas but he won't carry my money again unless he improves a lot. Mirage Dancer was surprisingly easy to back at Goodwood and took his time to get past Blakeney Point but then went right away. The string of placed efforts might have put some off but they were in much better races.
Report Big Black Cat May 27, 2018 7:46 PM BST
Indeed sageform!  I of course remember his mum very well, she was a pretty good filly.  Its no surprise to think with a miler as a mother and a sire who got 10f, himself sired by a staying influence (Galileo) that he'd need further than a mile to be at his best...
Report neill d May 27, 2018 10:28 PM BST
Trainer is a massive negative with good horses, horse ran like he wanted to just get the whole ordeal over with, I'd say they over-trained him. Would love to see that horse with Stoute or Weld.
Report Big Black Cat May 30, 2018 12:17 PM BST
Shamardal? Attraction? Double Trigger? Just off the top of my head.

I'm all ears though.  Always trying?
Report neill d May 30, 2018 3:12 PM BST
All ten plus years ago, look at the career of Lumiere for an insight. He had a really nice winner by Shamardal there at Windsor on Monday, I'll probably back it for the Coventry as I was very impressed by it. His handling of good horses is extremely suspect for me, huge peaks and troughs because of overtraining. I don't think he differentiates enough from what I've heard and underestimates how hard group 1 racing is. My guess would be that Elarquam had a very hard race in the Guineas and he worked him too hard afterward. He ran like a horse that just wanted the whole experience over with.
Report neill d May 30, 2018 3:28 PM BST
I would accept that some horses like Permian, Buritano and Heavy Metal thrive on the heavy routine, but I think that there are horses who need to be handled a bit more delicately. Possibly a bit harder to get the best work riders the further north you go as well which is a huge element of it. There is a long history of the Arab owned horses being overdone by their trainers, up to Appleby who looks to be turning things around now, and of course the likes of Gosden and Bolger who are geniuses.
Report neill d May 30, 2018 3:45 PM BST
You'll love this if you're a Johnston fan actually, he is an interesting read always.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/racing-johnston-attacks-loss-of-the-derbys-lustre-179450.html
Report Big Black Cat June 1, 2018 9:10 PM BST
I wouldn't put myself down as a fully paid up member of his fan club to be honest.  He comes over as miserable and dour sometimes.  I'll never forget when Soviet Song beat Attraction in the Falmouth and suffered her first defeat.  He would have understandably been a bit upset, but came across badly on his interview (looked like they went too slow, blah blah-which was rubbish as they were just outside the course record).

Another thing that made him look like someone who was a miserable sod was his responses to some questions in one of Elite's publications.  Apparently he doesn't allow his staff to have pet names for their horses-he insists on them calling them their full names at all times!  He wouldn't like us referring to Sovie, Jude and Zulu at all.....
Report neill d June 2, 2018 1:29 AM BST
Strange man, would have to respect him, though as we all do. Lake Volta today was probably evidence of another one flying under his regime. He'd a nice filly in the novice stakes at Goodwood too. His two year olds look very good this season. I'd be starting to stand him as the season wears on though, If he had something coming into autumen that looked something, I'd be against it all over as well as anything for the Classics next spring.

i didn't like a bit of Cracksman tody, strange for a horse so generous to run like that, I see similarities with Eminent and although he might have hated the place, he might too be coming to the end of his tether as a racehorse.
Report A_T June 2, 2018 9:33 AM BST
I was surprised they ran Cracksman at Epsom again - it was evident to many watching last years Derby he hated the track. Still he got up and won with FD only pushing - look dot have plenty in hand. I would expect Cracksman to be very hard to beat on tracks like Ascot and York.
Report kincsem June 2, 2018 11:16 AM BST
Still he got up and won with FD only pushing

You must have been watching a different race.
The race I saw Frankie Dettori hit Cracksman on the rear eight times, and another few on the neck in the straight?
Report Big Black Cat June 2, 2018 1:25 PM BST
Cracksman decidedly unimpressive to be honest.  Soft ground shouldn't have been a problem.  The track maybe otherwise.  That race will have taken quite a bit out of him.  I hope he hasn't left his season behind there.
Report sageform June 2, 2018 7:31 PM BST
I really didn't think that Cracksman looked as fit as he has been previously and he blew hard and stood with both front feet well in front of him which is a clear sign of a horse having a really hard race. They may have thought it would be an easy race and got caught out by the ground and by SDS tactics. The other fancied horses were beaten miles so it may be a good effort in hindsight.
Meanwhile Ganayem took a big step forward at Goodwood.
Report Big Black Cat June 2, 2018 7:58 PM BST
Cracksman reported to have banged his head in the stalls-and ran in a daze apparently.
Report kincsem June 2, 2018 9:20 PM BST
Excuses.
What are the Frankel excuses for the last in the Oaks and the last in the Derby.?
Report Big Black Cat June 2, 2018 9:26 PM BST
It must be a bit of a worry to the team that there's still only been one individual G1 winner in Europe (albeit a very good one).
Report kincsem June 2, 2018 10:22 PM BST
And that winner, Cracksman, and the Derby winner Golden Horn, both trace to the same dam, Lora, and she traces further down her dam line to the influential mare Tessa Gillian.
It makes you wonder where they got their ability.
Report Big Black Cat June 3, 2018 4:22 PM BST
Frankel has sired this 3rd individual G1 winner as Mozu Ascot won the Yasuda Kinen in Japan.  All from his first crop.
Report sageform June 7, 2018 8:15 PM BST
Elwazir, another nice prospect for Frankel, won over 10 furlongs at Sandown this evening.
Report lingbleed June 20, 2018 12:21 AM BST
Well will he have the champion 3 yr two years in a row......great first day at royal ascot for him. Group 1 miler in the locker, and the old rouge mirage dancer give him a listed win..... crackman tomorrow
Report sageform June 21, 2018 2:27 PM BST
Mirage Dancer was a bit of an exception to the general rule that Frankel progeny don't improve with racing imo.
Report Big Black Cat June 21, 2018 8:27 PM BST
Was Cracksman just a bit ill at ease on the ground yesterday.  Or was it something more than that.  JG talking about him being very interested in the fillies coming back from the DoC stakes, and he didn't look very interested in his job?

Frankel was pretty hot himself, and it was only that he was trained by a peerless master of his trade that his greatness was allowed to be shown over his tempremnet.

No criticism of Mr Gosden implied.  One of my favourite trainers, and a thoroughly decent bloke to boot.

I'm just wondering if its all getting a bit too much for him?  These Frankels seem to have a shelf life maybe?  If its just a case of soft ground then fine, but he's not going to get it in the KG is he?

What price he gets retired and bundled off to stud?
Report Big Black Cat June 21, 2018 8:29 PM BST
Without Parole his second European G1 winner.  Eminent looks a busted flush and as for Ela...... well who knows?
Report sageform June 22, 2018 7:13 AM BST
Despite my reservations about how long his progeny last, Frankel is second to Galileo in the sire table with effectively only 2 crops running for him as I have not seen any 2yo's yet this year.
Report sageform June 22, 2018 8:57 AM BST
another good chance for a Frankel Group 1 with Veracious in the Coronation. She is the dark one in a field of classic winners.
Report sageform June 22, 2018 4:26 PM BST
Huge price for Veracious after Sir Michael's comments and she was outclassed by the winner but I collected on the place bet and if she wasn't ready today, how good is she?
Report lewisham ranger July 2, 2018 10:48 AM BST
99 percent of horse racing success is breeding, it's in the genes, you look at galileo and his stats were astonishing. once you get a blue-blood galileo you can't go wrong can you, obviously most of them go to O'Brien and he's hardly going to mess them up.
Report lewisham ranger July 2, 2018 10:50 AM BST
Frankel already started well, already got a 130 horse in cracksman early in his stud career, for all galileo's consistency as a sire he only got two rated over 130, frankel being one of them of course.
Report sageform July 6, 2018 11:54 AM BST
The next expensive Frankel 2yo has a debut today when Fox Premier lines up in the 3.00 at Sandown. Both divisions of this have some very well bred contenders. Is the Dewhurst winner running today?
Report Big Black Cat July 7, 2018 10:58 AM BST
Lewisham ranger-Galileo may have only got 2 over 130, but just look at all of those lovely Group 1 winners.....

Cracksman got his 130 under extreme conditions-look at his last couple of races-it wouldn't surprise me to see him retiring to stud before it all goes horribly wrong....
Report sageform July 14, 2018 3:14 PM BST
Two 3yo handicappers by Frankel hacked up this afternoon. Both from really good mares, trained by Owen Burrows for Sheikh Hamdan and heavily backed. Both potential Group horses. Made my day as I beat SP by a wide margin on both.
Report sageform July 20, 2018 4:56 PM BST
Surya by Frankel out of Sariska plodded home over 14 furlongs at Haydock today. He looks just right for a jumping sireHappy
Report blackbarn July 26, 2018 3:46 PM BST
Tasleya - a very nice (apparently) Hamdan/Rouget 2yo filly.  Due to run on Sunday at Deauville in a race for unraced fillies.  Nice pedigree, out of Mashoora - a Group winner and G1/2 placed.  The dam won THIS race in a canter in 2011.
Report sageform July 26, 2018 8:55 PM BST
Thanks, will look out for that.
Report blackbarn July 29, 2018 2:55 PM BST
Nice!CoolHappy
Report sageform July 30, 2018 8:11 AM BST
Sadly with family here and Sunday lunch it slipped my mind! Well done for spotting it. Frankel 2yo's have been a bit thin on the ground so far this year.
Report blackbarn July 30, 2018 10:34 AM BST
No bother sage.   She was green but quite impressive.  Here is a link - https://www.racingandsports.tv/prix-de-lisieux-tasleya-deauville-29-07-18-v-28QJ
Report sageform August 4, 2018 10:57 AM BST
Most attention will be on Goodwood today but there are some very nice pedigrees on show elsewhere.

Newmarket 3.15 Dubai Beauty by Frankel-Minidress. Might find it hard to beat Posted by Kingman who has a good run already. Twist n Shake is another Kingman from Helena Springfield.

Newmarket 5.35. Swiss Storm by Frankel out of Swiss Lake won on debut but disappointing since. A half brother, Ghalyoon by Invincible Spirit runs in the 3.20 at Chelmsford.
Report sageform August 4, 2018 2:53 PM BST
Mekong by Frankel landed a 30k prize at Chelmsford. Home bred by Philip Newton.
Report sageform August 4, 2018 3:18 PM BST
Dubai Duty did well to beat the 2 by Kingman who were second and third.
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