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sageform
20 Dec 17 13:06
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Date Joined: 15 Jun 01
| Topic/replies: 10,367 | Blogger: sageform's blog
I have looked at all of the Frankel progeny in the RP database that have so far run (in any country) from his 2 crops.
Total to have run: 111.
Of which:
32 won first time out.
17 were second
12 were third
7 were fourth
43 were unplaced.

Many of the ones that didn't win fto have won in subsequent runs of course but they do seem to be good first time. Also worth mentioning that none of those trained by Aiden O' B won and few were placed first time.
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Report Big Black Cat December 20, 2017 1:47 PM GMT
FTO winner over hurdles too sageform (or was that included?)
Report sageform December 21, 2017 8:37 AM GMT
No it wasn't because it ran on the flat a few times and didn't win any of them! I did watch and back the first hurdle runner who looked a real stayer. I didn't differentiate between first and second crop but I get the feeling that the second have been given a bit more time as the pressure on trainers to win with them recedes.
Report kincsem December 21, 2017 9:18 PM GMT
More interesting is the crop sizes.
Report A_T December 23, 2017 10:44 AM GMT
the champion 3yo colt from his first crop. his owners will be delighted.
Report Big Black Cat December 23, 2017 11:42 AM GMT
Pretty good start for Frankel. Two individual G1 winners from his first two crops and lots of well above average but not quite top class animals-including plenty (16) of group winners.

I did see that blurb from Juddmonte about him having more Group winners than Galileo at the same stage-maybe true but his dad had 8 individual G1 winners in his first two crops (according to my research anyway).

Cracksman is a very fine animal, but was his only European G1 winner to date of course, from his first two crops.
Report sageform December 23, 2017 6:29 PM GMT
Eminent could still win a G1 as I see him as a 4yo improver but little else around on current evidence. Nothing really exciting from the 2yo crop. I do think that there a few potential late developers though. Herculean and Wadilsafa were first and second in the same maiden but it is hard to gauge the form while Elwazir and Erdogan are 2 very well bred maidens to watch for once the turf season returns. Cracksman had done little as a 2yo.
Report Big Black Cat December 23, 2017 10:31 PM GMT
Cracksman and Eminent could certainly still improve further-absolutely.  There may be late maturing 3 yo's that we've not seen yet as well.

Cracksman certainly improved throughout the season of course-if he'd been at the same level as he was in the Champion then he'd have probably been a dual Derby winner too.
Report truehoncho December 24, 2017 6:44 PM GMT
Not sure why anyone would think that Cracksman or Eminent are certain to improve. Cracksman has temperament issues and Eminent is not a good looking horse in my book.
Report Big Black Cat December 24, 2017 7:07 PM GMT
Just looking at his current sales returns, then if you've got the dosh, and the mare then he seems a very good option!  His median for both colts and fillies is way above his fee and I'm sure that anyone who has a foal or yearling will hope that will continue.

Obviously Elite are sending MARLINKA (dam of MARSHA) to him in 2018 so you will hopefully have a FRANKEL half brother/sister to her on the ground in 2019. 

Of course, as mentioned earlier, there's nothing of his looking likely to be a superstar in this years 2yo's (at the minute).  He's has Cracksman and Eminent of course, but if he fails to have more G1 winners in the next couple of years, its going to be getting harder and harder to justify the price tags and dare I say it, the fee?
Report duncan idaho January 10, 2018 1:49 PM GMT
truehoncho  24 Dec 17 18:44

Not sure why anyone would think that Cracksman or Eminent are certain to improve. Cracksman has temperament issues and Eminent is not a good looking horse in my book.



What are Cracksman's temperament issues? I havent picked up on them. As far as i'm concerned, he'll be a monster at 4 (in a good way)
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