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05 Feb 13 03:47
Date Joined: 10 May 04
| Topic/replies: 1,190 | Blogger: Castiron's blog
A bit different to Betfair in that you have to bet,best of the three totes, and then stipulate the amount you wish to lose. The commission is 2.9%.

I can see plenty of advantages, and used in conjunction with Betfair, it will suit me, as 90% of what I do here is laying.

I'm pretty sure its run by Vince McDonald.
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Report elsu. February 25, 2013 11:44 AM GMT
as you know i only lay the DINGOS  on sat night betting on inter MENANGLE/GEELONG  i placed two bets two lay in a hurry
race 1 REVIVALIST /LOMBO SLEEK STREAK  i put it on wrong side  for win $1000 instead of lay $1000... it cost me $2k i may been lucky as i laid in same race 5.7.8 for $2000
could been worse could lost 6k but saying that im still winning
but havent taking anything out
Report BJT February 25, 2013 11:46 AM GMT
I have taken out 3 times now, and the formula that I can see has changed from 1.236 on under 10.00, to it appears 1.403 on under 5.00, and 1.8 on best tote everything else.
Can anybody confirm?
Report Solvalla February 25, 2013 12:55 PM GMT

Still trying to work out if it is a scam or not?

Or are you thinking the palm fronds of Vanuatu will make a nice dress. 

BTW it is illegal for Australians to bet on Australian racing with non licenced overseas outfits.

Do your homework or you end up looking like you should be sitting on a pond being fed bread by the geriatrics.
Report Beat The OverRound February 25, 2013 3:25 PM GMT
He's got no idea of the law, nor the changes that have taken place.

Attracting Aussie punters and advertising was a byproduct of the steps they were required to take by law. To insinuate that was the reason they spent billions on a presence here is beyond ludicrous.

and by the way they did offer betting on aussie races before they were told to cease and decided to get a license in australia

Exactly, you just screwed your own argument!

The laws changed and they decided to get a licence so that they could accept bets from Aussies without it being illegal for us and them.
They can accept bets from us on UK racing without a licence and without it being illegal, but Aussie races it is illegal.

Take this to the bank, why do you think they had to stop accepting bets from Greece, Germany and other countries. Why do you think they can't supply markets for Hong Kong, can't take US punters but can take bets from other countries on US races?

The answers are all there in the regulations.

As I said, if I started accepting bets from US residents on racing, not only would I be breaking Australian law, but I can guarantee the FBI would make the trip to hunt me down.
It's happened many times before, it would be a joint prosecution.
Report Beat The OverRound February 25, 2013 3:28 PM GMT
BJT if that's the case, there doesn't seem to be any advantage whatsoever.
Report BJT February 25, 2013 4:20 PM GMT
Not at those percentages no.  Not sure if it is because I have withdrawn 3 times, or if it was because **** Monday meetings, or if they just decided they wanted to try and fool everybody.

Either way though, they do pay out and I guess people are free to work the rest out for themself.
Report Castiron February 25, 2013 7:41 PM GMT

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I've been close to making the same error 4 or 5 times. Their software is just terrible and it is so easy to stuff up, especially if you do it in a hurry and want to lay more than one horse.

I plan to make a withdrawl this week but have to fix up my verification first.
Report logroller February 26, 2013 4:07 AM GMT
overbite...................forget the US, different kettle of fish altogether, for one major reason, they dont have bookies..........

The WTO and International Trade Tribunals have already ruled on excatly what you claim to be illegal. and it states

"That its is illegal for a country to offer services to foreign countries citizens and then refuse those same services from being offered to your citizens"

its all just a big scare campaign......tell me of one foreign bookie who has ever been charged under the Interactive gambling Act............or one Aussie citzen that has ever been charged for betting with o/s hasnt and will not ever happen because the act isnt worthy of sh!t paper
Report Live_in_Hope February 26, 2013 5:13 AM GMT
thats probably true logroller but we play for money not points, so lets hope there is no issues when it comes time to withdraw money
Report logroller February 26, 2013 5:37 AM GMT
dont get me wrong Hope, by all means do your due diligence on any o/s company that you are about to transact with, and that doesnt go just for gambling companies.

make up your own mind and then transact with whom ever you wish.........buyer beware

The aussie  Gambling Productivity Commission last year reported that more than 2200 internet sites are providing aussie citizens with gambling services, but alas not one charge against a company or punter. As i keep saying the 2001 Interactive Gambling Act is utterly useless. Despite what Overthetop states about "laws have changed", it is not the case the IG Act from 2001 has not had one inclusion or deleted any of the original act. I mean what a joke that for years, bet365,paddypower,sportingbet,betfair,unibet,betfred and a host of others all provided gambling services to aussies, but then 3 months before obtaining an Australian License they all stopped, so they shouldnt be charged or fined for contravention of the Act retrospectively ?...........pleeaaassse
Report Lickmyballs February 26, 2013 9:38 AM GMT
flogroller states:

The WTO and International Trade Tribunals have already ruled on excatly what you claim to be illegal. and it states

"That its is illegal for a country to offer services to foreign countries citizens and then refuse those same services from being offered to your citizens"

Talk me through this one then, slowly, for I am slightly less evolved than you almighty great one -

Betfair Australia offers markets on AFL, NRL, (home) Cricket matches, Australian Open tennis etc.

"Foreign countries citizens" are allowed to bet in-running, online. Without having to call up. "Australian citizens" are refused this medium.

Report Solvalla February 26, 2013 10:03 AM GMT
Great name there Lick.

Be careful. He will come back full of venom and vitriol.  Be prepared. Damn good bloke logroller. And an encyclopaedia of betting wealth and knowledge. Loves Vanuatu by all accounts.

How much does it cost to get some legislation changed Log?  A carton? Bottle?
Report Lickmyballs February 26, 2013 10:12 AM GMT
Sadly, I know exactly who log is. Your description of him and mine are as close as Perth is to Melbourne.
Report Beat The OverRound February 26, 2013 10:33 AM GMT
I give up jointroller, clearly you just can't grasp the law nor the Act, because it doesn't suit your argument.

forget the US, different kettle of fish altogether, for one major reason, they dont have bookies

Wrong, they have bookies in Las Vegas.

"That its is illegal for a country to offer services to foreign countries citizens and then refuse those same services from being offered to your citizens"

That doesn't apply to gambling, it applies to trades and services.
Again, that is the reason there's no Hong Kong markets on Betfair and similarly why you can't use Betfair even if just on holidays in the USA.

U.S. Attorney’s Office August 08, 2012    

Eastern District of Pennsylvania (215) 861-8200

PHILADELPHIA—A 23-count indictment was unsealed today charging 16 defendants in a conspiracy case involving the Mastronardo Bookmaking Organization, a multi-million-dollar sports betting operation with bettors throughout the U.S. At its peak, the alleged organization had more than 1,000 bettors and was generating millions of dollars a year. All but one defendant (Joanna Mastronardo) are charged with conspiracy to participate in a racketeering enterprise (RICO) and conducting an illegal gambling business. The indictment alleges that between January 1, 2005 and January 1, 2011, the organization utilized Internet websites and telephone numbers that allowed bettors to place sports bets on football, baseball, basketball, golf, horse racing, and other sporting events. Residents of Costa Rica staffed the Internet and telephone sites. The defendants allegedly hid more than $1 million in and around their homes, including in specially-built compartments and in PVC pipes that were buried in a yard.

Charged are Joseph Vito Mastronardo, Jr. and John Mastronardo, the two alleged leaders; Joseph F. Mastronardo, Eric Woehlcke, Harry Murray, Joseph Vitelli, Anna Rose Vitelli, Patrick Tronoski, Edward Feighan, Kenneth Cohen, Schuyler Twaddle, Michael Loftus, Michael Squillante, David Rounick, Ronald Gendrachi; and Joanna Mastronardo, the wife of Joseph Mastronardo, Jr. All, with the exception of Twaddle, were arrested this morning.

The indictment was announced by U.S. Attorney Zane David Memeger, FBI Special Agent in Charge George C. Venizelos of the Philadelphia Field Office, Special Agent in Charge Eric Hylton of the Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigation, and Montgomery County District Attorney Risa Ferman.

The indictment alleges that the defendants ran the organization using telephone, Skype, e-mail, text messaging, and in-person communication. They allegedly met bettors in-person, often in public buildings and parking lots, to collect or deliver payments that ranged from $1,000 to more than $100,000. The organization also allegedly used a gas station on Norristown Road in Blue Bell, Pennsylvania, as a mailing address and drop-off site to collect gambling payments.

According to the indictment, members of the Mastronardo Bookmaking Organization laundered the gambling proceeds using check cashing agencies, private bank accounts, and international bank accounts and provided instructions so that a losing bettor could pay a gambling debt through a charitable donation.

According to the indictment, leader Joseph V. Mastronardo, Jr. supervised the agents, sub-agents, websites ( and, office employees; laundered some of the betting proceeds; collected debts; and instructed others to collect debts. Mastronardo’s brother, John, also a leader in the organization, supervised agents and sub-agents, laundered proceeds, and collected debts. John’s son, Joseph F. Mastronardo, worked as an office employee, collected debts, and performed other financial duties. Eric Woehlcke was initially a bookmaker and office employee, then worked as an office manager, and eventually became a leader supervising agents and sub-agents and laundering proceeds. Harry Murray was a bookmaker who resided in Florida and laundered proceeds in and outside the U.S. Joseph and Anna Rose Vitelli owned J&A Check Cashing where, in 2006, they allowed the organization to occupy an office for the illegal gambling business and which was also used to aid in the laundering of proceeds. Tronoski, Feighan, Cohen, Twaddle, Loftus, Squillante, Rounick, and Gendrachi were all bookmakers.

The indictment alleges that in March 2010, Joseph V. Mastronardo, Jr., in a conversation with bookmaker Harry Murray, commented, “Well, times like this I’m happy I’m a bookmaker,” to which Murray responded, “Me too.”

“Technology allowed the defendants to allegedly expand their gambling and money laundering operation far beyond the borders of Pennsylvania,” said Memeger. “Unfortunately for the defendants, however, we have the necessary statutory tools to investigate and prosecute those who openly flout our illegal gambling and financial reporting laws.”

“Illegal gambling and money laundering are the financial engines that help drive criminal enterprises like the one alleged today,” said Special Agent in Charge Venizelos. “The type of gambling activity charged here is illegal. These types of extensive and long-term joint investigative efforts, worked with our partners like the IRS and Montgomery County Detectives, are intended to dismantle criminal organizations that profit from illegal activities.”

“This alleged racketeering operation was anchored in Montgomery County but had tentacles spreading across the U.S. and beyond,” said D.A. Ferman. “Despite our attempt to shut it down in 2006-2007 with a Montgomery County prosecution, my office discovered that the defendants, as is alleged in the indictment, were back in business. We partnered with our federal counterparts to examine the full scope of the alleged illegal gambling operation. Today’s indictment reflects the work of many law enforcement agents across multiple agencies. These defendants tried to ‘game’ the system. Today, they crapped out.”

“The indictments announced today are the result of a significant and complex investigation,” said Special Agent in Charge Eric Hylton. “With both law enforcement and financial expertise, our agents are uniquely qualified to assist with these types of cases by following the trail of money. Our office will continue to work aggressively to identify and target illegal financial gains.”

Joanna Mastronardo is charged with one count of structuring in which it is alleged that she participated in making approximately 72 deposits in amounts less than $10,000, totaling more than $500,000 in a 12-month period.

Joseph V. Mastronardo, Jr. is charged in all 23 counts of the indictment. The remaining 14 defendants are each charged with the RICO conspiracy and with prohibition of illegal gambling. The indictment also seeks forfeiture of more than $6.3 million as alleged proceeds of the illegal enterprise.

The case was investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Internal Revenue Service-Criminal Investigation, the Montgomery County Detective Bureau, and the Montgomery County District Attorney’s Office. It is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorney Jason P. Bologna.

An indictment or information is an accusation. A defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.

Goodnight jointroller!
Report logroller February 26, 2013 10:44 AM GMT
who am i then lickmyballs...........maybe just a little hint
Report Lickmyballs February 26, 2013 10:48 AM GMT
No fun in that 3041
Report GoldCoastinvestor February 26, 2013 10:54 AM GMT
once you get used to the interface its pretty easy and straight forward, I too during the trial bets backed horses I wanted to lay, but they ended up winning.

last night I layed 23 succesful lays in a row, tonight I am about 12 in a row.
Report logroller February 26, 2013 10:58 AM GMT
Be careful. He will come back full of venom and vitriol

pleeaasse Sol, VENOM, thats a bit over the top isnt it

i actually thought this debate has some merit, so i'm not allow to give my findings or opinions?

VITRIOL...........surely a strong arguement doesnt carry this unfair banner

and overthetop....LV doesnt have bookies it has Casino's and they are not allow to bet foreign citzens over the internet or telephones. The US doesnt bet foreign citizens over the net in any shape or form, thus they can adhere to the WTO edict to enforce that foreign bookies are not allow to bet their citizens
Report logroller February 26, 2013 11:06 AM GMT
close lickballs, u have me an a disadvantage then. so why not stop hiding behind your anonymity and give me a clue to your ID
Report Lickmyballs February 26, 2013 11:10 AM GMT
Because my ID has absolutely nought to do with you drowning in your (again) misplaced arguments.

You've addressed a couple of posters yet chosen to neglect my 26 Feb 13 09:38 post and the question it asks.

And don't even get me started on your misplaced belief that the internet did not exist in Australia in 1992. Remember (yet another) furphy you swore was true....?
Report logroller February 26, 2013 11:17 AM GMT
ok let me get back to u on that................... just a little bit frightened to reveal your self maybe?........not to worry then.
Report logroller February 26, 2013 11:19 AM GMT
Talk me through this one then, slowly, for I am slightly less evolved than you almighty great one -

was it this post then???
Report logroller February 26, 2013 11:52 AM GMT
lickballs regarding the internet thingy
Report Lickmyballs February 26, 2013 12:30 PM GMT
Regarding the internet thingy???

Starts off "positively" from your point of view I guess -

"The first draft of this paper was cobbled together from unreliable memories..."
"My Declaration of Interest below states that I bring no special authority to the writing of this paper..."
"And the expression, and the inevitable errors of commission and omission, are those of myself alone!!!"

And then finally -

"I am assured by Ian Peter, Pegasus Networks' foundation CEO, that it offered public dialup access to the Internet in Australia, commencing in June 1989 with local access, and moving to nationwide access from 14 September 1989. It operated initially from Byron Bay, and later from Brisbane. It used UUCP and TCP/IP connections to exchange mail and newsgroups with the Internet, initially via direct dialup to USA, and later via ACSNet. "

Just give up now, you're getting sadder and sadder...
Report logroller February 26, 2013 1:32 PM GMT
glad to see u read it.......
Report logroller February 26, 2013 1:36 PM GMT
ive got u on a string haven't I  ????
Report Lickmyballs February 27, 2013 1:24 AM GMT
Yep, you're right, you've really got me hooked.

If by "on a string" you mean you spout waffle about the WTO and International Trade Tribunals yet dodge questioning about why Betfair Aust can't offer in-running, online - flying in the face of your waffle.

If by "on a string" you mean you decree 'Australia didn't have the internet in 1992', then post some useless link which invalidates your initial claim.

Yes, you sad @rseclown, you've really got me.
Report GoldCoastinvestor March 1, 2013 12:58 AM GMT
Has anyone referred anyone else and recieve dthe $500 per refrrer lay bonus they offer?? I have referred 2 ppl who have done the trial deposited money and now have an active acc, but haven't got any dep bonus yet??
Report doubleagent March 1, 2013 6:42 AM GMT
You used to be a very agreeable chap Loggy now wherever I go I find you locked in bitter feuds on the forum. What happened to you MAAAAAAaaaaan????
Report Live_in_Hope March 1, 2013 7:46 AM GMT
I think he is bobbygirl actually
Report logroller March 2, 2013 2:21 AM GMT
not at all DA, still the lay back hippie u know. just have to deal with a few troll lurkers swooping in to contribute nothing but negative bile
Report BJT March 3, 2013 2:38 AM GMT
Right now, and most days I am now on 32% above home tote for horses
Report BJT March 3, 2013 2:39 AM GMT

under 5.00, and 75% above highest tote for the rest.

Anybody else experiencing the same thing?
Report THERE....IS....NO....SPOOOOON March 3, 2013 2:43 AM GMT
Report BJT March 3, 2013 3:27 AM GMT
No.  Just sick of half your post not being posted and having to type it out again.....
Report Castiron March 18, 2013 7:55 PM GMT
I made my first withdrawl yesterday, and the money was in my bank account this morning.

Have not had a problem in the six weeks I've been using the site.
Report BJT March 19, 2013 4:43 AM GMT
I am now at:
HomeToteOdds5.00 LayOdds = (highestTote-1)* 1.92 + 1


But apart from that, yeah no problems.  Made plenty of withdrawals (plenty of deposits too).  Apart from the odds now being nearly all triple figures, no drama...  Scared
Report SecondComing March 19, 2013 6:54 AM GMT
This withdrawal feature, is this common with all bookies?
Report Castiron March 19, 2013 7:47 AM GMT
Most don't allow it, if it becomes too consistent.
Report trotman March 22, 2013 1:28 AM GMT
Account holders please advise ---

If I were to deposit 1000 and receive 700 'free' lay bets, then lay something at $10 net to lose the 1700 ..

I presume my account balance would then be approx 1170 - not 1870 ..

That is what they mean by 'stake out' free lay bet - correct ????

Many thanks if you can clarify.
Report Castiron March 22, 2013 2:13 AM GMT
Correct Trotman.

You don't get to keep the stake from any free bet.

Also the maximum free bet was $100, on the trots.
Report BJT March 22, 2013 2:45 AM GMT
What?  No.  Of course you keep the stake from the free bets, the stake is the win.

With the free lay bets, actually what happens is this.

You only get 70% bonus on amounts above 200.  So if you were to deposit 1000, you would only get (1000-200)*.7, or 560 in free lay bets.

That amount is purely liability.  Your numbers are pretty correct in that you understand potential winnings, but laying 1700 at 11.00 means you of course are staking 170 dollars.  If that horse loses, you win that 170, which is your stake.
You of course lose 2.9% of that in charges, and don't get any bonus on your initial 200 deposit, but pretty close.
Report BJT March 22, 2013 2:47 AM GMT
Best way to do it, is to lay a shorty. As that opens up the amount the free bet is actually worth. 

Laying the 700 at 1.50 for example, obviously opens you up to a 1400 dollar payout using leverage on the free bet.  The longer the odds, the less of the amount you keep.
Report Castiron March 22, 2013 3:18 AM GMT
They must have you down as a mug, BJT, and let you keep your stake, knowing it's just a matter of time. Laugh
Report BJT March 22, 2013 3:40 AM GMT
Just a matter of time?  rotflmfao.  When they limit your betting, there really is no time for them to get anything back.
Report Castiron April 6, 2013 9:29 PM BST
In the last few days I've had my laying limit reduced to $1200. A bit disappointing but I will adapt.

The positive is that I've withdrawn $5k in three lots and each time the money was in my bank the next day.

Has anyone else had their limit reduced. I would imagine the limit on the gallops would be a lot higher.
Report elsu. April 6, 2013 11:13 PM BST
had an account for about 6wks
had 3 withdrawls also in my bank next day
started on a limit of 2k still have the same limit 2k
Report Castiron April 13, 2013 10:06 AM BST
I found tonight, that my laying limit has been further reduced to $600. Looks like the party may be over.  Sad
Report BJT April 13, 2013 10:13 AM BST
Yeah mine was reduced.  They have changed their system a little over the last week or so.  I am still looking at around 91% over highest tote as my lay odds, and also have the same 1200 limit, which seems to get knocked back, and often end up not being allowed on at all.

Would be worth shooting them an email though to see if that is what is supposed to be happening.
Report elsu. April 13, 2013 10:48 AM BST
just changed my limits from 2k to $1k
Report Castiron April 13, 2013 11:03 AM BST
I think we have worn them down, Elsu.
Report swansdude April 15, 2013 2:24 AM BST
Yep reduced here down to 1200 then down to 120 in the one  day. I asked why they said i was laying to close to jump. Wasn't an issue previous few weeks. There is value with them in most races not all but no use to me anymore unfortunately. I withdrew my balance and was in my account in 48 hours. Very unfortunate they had potential to be a keeper
Report swansdude April 15, 2013 2:25 AM BST
i'd have no problem referring others and was about to do so when my limits were cut.
Report Solvalla April 15, 2013 5:15 AM BST
it was only a matter of time before economics created a reality in Vanuatu. They can only bleed money on a poor business model for so long.
Report Castiron April 15, 2013 5:36 AM BST
Layed one in the 2nd at Globe to lose my limit of $600. Did that four minutes from start time. Tried to lay another in the same race with two minutes to go and got the #120 limit, just as swansdude had received.
Report Aussie Driver April 15, 2013 6:48 AM BST
As usual the likes of Castiron and Elsu ruining things for everyone Plain
Report Castiron April 15, 2013 7:05 AM BST
Sad that it looks like coming to an end. Would have to say it's the most painless $7k, I have won off any bookie.
Report FTP1 April 19, 2013 10:43 PM BST
I have used this site and it seems ok. Quick withdrawals as well. But no one can tell me what price i am laying horses at. You are definately laying them at better than best tote and a lot of the time better than Betfair as well so can't see much point to it. I asked the company what price am i laying these things at and they said a tote formula but wouldnt give me details. Can anyone tell me what price i am laying horses at on this site. Surely you guys must know if you have been laying things on there.
Report Castiron April 20, 2013 12:47 AM BST
I've been betting with them for two months. Overall I wasn't disappointed with the price I was laying them at. Sometimes it was well over the best tote, but other times it was about mid tote.

The big advantage for me was that, I could lay any horse I wanted. This was not possible in the markets I bet on with Betfair.

My problem is that I have been limited to lay to lose $600 and if I bet in the last two minutes, this is further reduced to $120.
Report Castiron April 20, 2013 2:18 AM BST
Here is an email I received earlier in the week from the company. I made no complaint to them about having my limit reduced, so I assume they must read this forum.

I did have a chuckle when I read it.

Dear *******

There has been a mass of Betfair clients joining the site.

This of course means that the Betfair "cripples" are laid heavily.

We allocate a $100,000 risk to every one of these runners.

When the $100k is getting towards being set, client bets are reduced

so that all clients get set for something.

The earlier you bet the more sure of 100% setting

We will be increasing the limit on these runners shortly.

Runners in the market have a based of $250,000 risk prior to
any client cuts.

Thanks for your patronage and as promised to all our clients,
we do not bar winning clients.

We leave the Casino mentality to the Eurrpean Bookmakers

James Block
Report BJT April 20, 2013 6:09 AM BST

Apr 19, 2013 -- 10:43PM, FTP1 wrote:

I have used this site and it seems ok. Quick withdrawals as well. But no one can tell me what price i am laying horses at. You are definately laying them at better than best tote and a lot of the time better than Betfair as well so can't see much point to it. I asked the company what price am i laying these things at and they said a tote formula but wouldnt give me details. Can anyone tell me what price i am laying horses at on this site. Surely you guys must know if you have been laying things on there.

Pretty sure I told you the formula they use.  They change it around a bit, but easy enough to work out your settings if you know the base figures.
Depending on how well you are going:

Start you out at odds LT10.00 they use the home tote, and add about 23% to it.  Over 10.00 and they use the highest tote and add 40% to it.
As you go on, they increase these figures, and drop the over 10.00 to over 5.  As you go further, they simply put you on 40% above highest tote for lower prices and 90% plus for the longer priced runners.

In regards to the email, I am still waiting on an explanation as to why I am only able to bet to 500 liability on sports, and 120 liability to racing.  Even betting 9 minutes prior to jump I am on 120 liability, even though I am betting 90% above the highest tote.

Sure they don't ban winners.  But they throttle betting ability up there with the best of them.

Report BJT April 20, 2013 6:13 AM BST
Apparantly initially, their excuse in regards to 500 liability on sports was it was a bug or an error and I wasn't limited.  But getting somebody else to put bets through their account showed up that it was limited to mine.

The reality with them, is they have checks on the prices you are laying at with them and the BF prices on the same runners.  If you fall outside a certain percentage, they increase the prices you lay at with them.  So basically if you seek value and aren't committed 100% to them, they don't want your business.  That is my impression anyway.

Nothing new to see here.
Report Castiron April 20, 2013 6:57 AM BST
I have layed many horses in the 5/1 to 10/1 price range, where the price I layed them at, was less than the best tote.
Report BJT April 20, 2013 8:44 AM BST
Yes, but the system they have in place is on a per person basis.  I know the system, and I know the areas that they change.

They start you off at around 23% LT 10.00 home tote, and above that price is around 40% above highest tote.  After that they increase the percentages.  And then they go from above 10.00 to above 5.00.

Here is the lay odds for me for menangle race 1, and included are the tote odds (their data set).  This was after the result, so all are firm.  GT = Greater Than.  LT = Less Than.  And the price being tested, is the home tote.  In this case, NSW, which is the first number in the odds set down the bottom.  STAB middle number, and Unitab last number.

Menangle Race 1.
11.34    GT 5.00 91.5% above highest tote and home tote.
33.17    GT 10.00 91.8% above highest tote
2.98     LT 5.00 32% above home tote
65.54    GT 10.00 91.5% above highest tote
21.3     GT 5.00 91.5% above highest tote
58.84    GT 10.00 91.5% above highest tote
46.39    GT 10.00 91.5% above highest tote
47.54    GT 10.00 91.5% above highest tote
176.43   GT 10.00 91.5% above highest tote
4.7      LT 5.00  32% above home tote / highest tote

6.4 6.4 6.2
16.7 15.3 17.8
2.5 2.7 2.4
34.7 31.4 27.3
8.7 7.4 11.6
22.1 31.2 26.6
20.3 19.6 24.7
24 17.9 25.3
64.2 92.6 75.7
3.8 3.7 3.4

So while you may very well be laying things between 5 and 10 at below highest tote Castiron, I most certainly am not. 

As I said, the formula is easy enough to work out when you know the criteria they use.  As you can see, and test for yourself, right now, I am on 32% above home tote when the home tote price is sub 5.00.  Anything over that, I am laying at 91.5% above the highest tote.
Report BJT April 20, 2013 8:46 AM BST
You can't argue with maths.  They have a definitive odds that you will lay at.  There is no reason you shouldn't know what you are dealing with.  They are most certainly not random prices.
Report Castiron April 20, 2013 8:58 AM BST
So what you are saying, BJT, is that the lay price can vary for individual customers.
Report BJT April 20, 2013 9:00 AM BST
If you are prepared to show yours Castiron, I am sure you will see that you are on a completely different calculation than me, but exactly the same parameters.  If what you say is accurate, and you are still on base rate (been a while but will guess anyway), your prices would be something like:


Now they have changed things around, but when they started, this is what you would have had.  Which is LT 10.00 23.6% above home tote, and GT 10.00 40% above highest tote.

Care to share?
Report BJT April 20, 2013 9:02 AM BST
Used 1.4, but a search through this thread shows layPrice= (highestToteOdds-1)*1.4067 +1.....
Report Castiron April 20, 2013 9:06 AM BST
I have no problem with doing that. I'll message you when I get a chance in the next few days.
Report Castiron April 20, 2013 10:10 AM BST

Race 2 tonight at Port Pirie

Layed Roseontheavenue to lose $600. I won $52.92 which is a bit less than 12/1.

The final totes were VicTab 16.70 NswTab 18.70 Tatts 9.90.
Report BJT April 20, 2013 10:27 AM BST
It should tell you the final odds though?  Just refresh it...

My odds to lay ROSEONTHEAVENUE is


Port Pirie, obviously has UNITAB as the home tote right?  So you snuck in by 10 cents under the 10.00.

(9.9 - 1) * 1.236 + 1 = 12.004. 

I imagine you got paid 54.50 and lost 1.58 in commission to them?  Or is that after commission?

600/54.5 = 11.01 + stake equals odds of 12.01

12.004 is very close to 12.009....

Now for me, I am working on 91.5% above highest tote.  So my calc is using NSW (high tote) - 1) * 1.915 and comes to 34.9...

So while you are laying at 12 bucks, I am laying at nearly 3 times that figure....

Unless of course Pt Pirie is not the UNITAB?
Report BJT April 20, 2013 10:29 AM BST
Now give me a lay at above 10.00 home tote, and I bet you are paying 1.4067 above highest tote.
Report BJT April 20, 2013 10:38 AM BST

Does that linky work?  Screenshot of my market for that same race showing ROSEONTHEAVENUE @ 34.9
Report BJT April 20, 2013 10:39 AM BST
You should be able to load up any market of the day and it should have final lay dividends in there.

Under "Next Race" where the name of the track is, click on that, find Menangle, and go to race 1, and compare the prices I gave you with what you see on your screen...  Bet the only difference is I used 1.4 instead of 1.4067, and of course a little rounding.
Report Castiron April 20, 2013 10:49 AM BST
My lay prices on the first at Menangle were

Report BJT April 20, 2013 10:54 AM BST

Apr 20, 2013 -- 10:49AM, Castiron wrote:

My lay prices on the first at Menangle were7.6827.482.8554.1210.5248.638.3539.30145.384.46

BJT • April 20, 2013 9:00 AM BST
If you are prepared to show yours Castiron, I am sure you will see that you are on a completely different calculation than me, but exactly the same parameters.  If what you say is accurate, and you are still on base rate (been a while but will guess anyway), your prices would be something like:


So obviously they have you on 57.6% above highest tote for all selections with a home tote showing greater than 10.00, and not the 40.67% that I suggested.

All under 10.00 there are spot on

Report Khan321 April 20, 2013 10:57 AM BST
Sounds like rough gig.  I blame Castiron for pushing their Globe liabilities over $100k per runner!! Angry
Report BJT April 20, 2013 10:58 AM BST
11.34     7.68
33.17     27.48
2.98       2.85
65.54     54.12
21.3      10.52
58.84     48.6
46.38     38.35
47.54     39.3
176.43   145.38
4.7         4.46

My lay prices vs Your lay prices

It is an exact science.  So no, they won't ban people, but they will make it so pointless to bet, just like the rest that don't ban you but let you on here for a dollar or 2......
Report Wat Smol May 29, 2013 5:57 AM BST
Website seems to have disappeared.
Report elsu. May 29, 2013 7:09 AM BST
may have different website  re google vip bet and log in
being betting on charlton with them
Report Wat Smol May 29, 2013 7:52 AM BST
i did what you told me to elsu & it's there again. Thanks.
Report onwardsandupwards June 15, 2013 3:16 AM BST
Been having trouble with vip bets software overpaying and then
doing adjustments which are incorrect and always in their favour.
Is anyone else having any problems with vip bet.
Report elsu. July 2, 2013 3:12 AM BST
received an EMAIL this morning from VIP
telling me i had racked up  $1450  in FREE BONUS BETS due TO MY TURNOVER.
it goes into your account at the end of each month...
Report elsu. July 2, 2013 3:17 AM BST
interesting to see if CASTIRON or BJT  received any bonus on their turnover if so I will be increasing my turnover multiplied by 4
Report Castiron July 4, 2013 8:50 PM BST

Got an email from them, offering a bonus, but nowhere as big as yours.

I haven't been doing much with them of late, as they have restricted me to laying to lose $600 and made it unviable to lay anything over 10/1.

Good to see you are still going strong on the site.
Report elsu. July 4, 2013 11:29 PM BST
im RESTRICTED  as well but if i bet early 15min before race jumps
they take my bet
Report BJT July 5, 2013 6:59 AM BST
Yeah I withdrew all funds but 1 dollar a few weeks ago.  Got a bonus 100 or so.  Haven't really used them for months because the prices were just ridiculous.  They were good for sports for a bit, but then they wouldn't lay me to over 500 liability on sport so I have just avoided them.  If they were happy to take my bet I would be into it, but just too much hassle having their screen open.

Will check them out again though, see if my lack of betting has lowered my rate under laying 200% of tote price....  Crazy
200%?? What happened to best of 3 totes?
Report BJT July 6, 2013 5:28 AM BST
Only people losing money get that, and that isn't even accurate.  Best you get is 23% or so above home tote.

Perhaps you can do some reading ^ and then you wouldn't have to ask silly questions.
Report doubleagent July 6, 2013 8:20 AM BST
What an unpleasant little man.
Report BJT July 6, 2013 8:44 AM BST
I posted 4 months ago what their base formula was.  Certainly wasn't top tote.  And I also posted what they change.  There for anybody to read.  To still, 4 months later, be asking about top tote, shows a level of ignorance to the thread, to the point where, yes, it was certainly a silly question to ask.

As for your hateful comments that are completely off the mark, it shows a certain level of lack of ability to interact socially, and the requirement of using a keyboard to try to make yourself feel better.
I can assure you you wouldn't be such "a man" to my face.  That is, if you ever front up the courage to leave the house where real people are.
Report doubleagent July 6, 2013 8:48 AM BST
Thick as a brick.
Report BJT July 6, 2013 8:59 AM BST
Oh, sorry.  Will try and simplify my posts to you in future..
Report BJT July 3, 2014 6:39 AM BST
Just logged back in to find they will let me on to lay for 20 cent stakes.  Actually the last one they let me on for 5 cents....  lol
Report henryluca December 20, 2014 3:31 AM GMT

Quite happy with betfair as platform to lay/ reason to change .....
Report Barney The Bot Slayer December 20, 2014 8:12 AM GMT
where do I find this site??
Report whoopi December 20, 2014 8:50 AM GMT
Report BJT December 20, 2014 9:34 AM GMT
Would give you a referral code, but on the off chance it got me 5 bucks or so in my account, wouldn't want to waste the 6 months it would take to turn it over so I could get it out and buy a pie...
Report henryluca December 20, 2014 10:01 AM GMT

Mention Henry

Report Barney The Bot Slayer December 20, 2014 11:18 AM GMT
ta whoopi
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